One way of looking at this is how the choice of life in our time - exemplified by Netflix or in your case, the apps - has turned people into Seinfeld’s character from Seinfeld. Unbearable, hollow, incapable of committing. Good on you for at least getting out there - there are others who are so paralyzed by the choice that they cannot function.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, and reading your piece a lot resonated with me.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but have you been rejected before? In the sound way this woman did? Rejected by someone you find yourself really drawn to and allow your brain to spawn endless futures with that person? Because what you went through is what I went through the first time I got rejected after a brief fling that seemed to be coalescing into a relationship.
Not to suggest this is you being inexperienced or that that kind of rejection from that kind of person gets better, or that your point about dating apps isn't true (I was lucky to date and eventually meet my wife just before dating apps really took off), but the part about dealing with the rejection stuck out to me. I also crafted an embarrassingly long conciliatory email, got a similar reply, received similar unvarnished Truths from friends afterwards. It blows!
Thanks for reading and for the questions. Haha yes, I have been rejected a lot of times by women I didn’t really care about. I guess in regards to women I've been interested in or had something of substance with, I’ve been the rejector more than the rejected.
I think this one was sort of unexpected based on how things were going—our second and third dates lasted 8 hours each which has never happened to me—unless I misinterpreted it all. I’m sure she did genuinely like me as a person if she spent that much time with me, I think my reaction to it was maybe she was missing that extra spark that I could explain via text. I figured it was too little too late but worth a shot.
Good writing, Sam. I think a lot of young men have been trained to spend their 20s fucking around and using dating apps. Like you, I once believed that getting lots of shallow experience would help because it would show me a great diversity in women. But I think it does show a lack of seriousness, an inability to strip off the armor that makes serious relationships hard. Like you, I am trying to leave those kinds of immature thoughts behind, and just either be single--actually single--or interested fully in one girl at a time. And I think not using the apps is helpful for that
I appreciate the read! Yeah, that's exactly my thought process. What bugged me about this instance is maybe it was a too-little-too-late situation because I was overwhelmed with how much I liked her, and it caught me off guard. Or maybe there was nothing I could do. I'll never know, but at least I can learn from it.
There is a cynical and non-cynical way to approach impermanent relationships. It sounds like you have embraced the non-cynical approach and gotten hurt in the process, but that’s how it goes. It’s better to feel hurt than to try to force yourself to feel nothing.
The cynical approach (which I associate with Anglo-American capitalist striving) tries to maximize body count in order to “win” at sex. The non-cynical approach (which I would associate with stereotypes of places like France or Italy) recognizes that even temporary relationships must be experienced fully. The cynical approach tries to strip emotional connection from sex and de-emphasize the importance of one’s partner. In a cynical hookup culture sexual partners become interchangeable commodities. The non-cynical approach embraces the emotional messiness of romance. The idea of amour fou, an emotional experience that burns so hot and so fast that it necessarily extinguishes itself, is anathema to modern American dating. Even if one is “looking for something serious”, and thus “taking it slow”, they’re putting up the same emotional barriers to keep themselves from being hurt that someone only looking for hookups would.
Dating is necessarily messy. You’re supposed to get hurt. And you’re supposed to leave ephemeral relationships behind eventually once you find something deep and sustainable. But that’s all up to chance.
Totally agree, and thanks for reading! I think moving around a bunch has gotten me emotionally equipped to handle "non-traditional" relationships, even if they aren't what people would consider "serious." Early on in dating, I just ask myself "do I like this person enough to see them at least once more?" And that simplifies things for me.
Dating is the microcosm, but all of society is suffering from this mode of interaction. If something isn't perfect, you tossed it out and moved on to the next thing. This date isn't quite right, they have this annoying thing or this dumb belief or whatever, left swipe, move along there are hundreds of others waiting. This friend has some regressive or just plain not thought all the way through beliefs? Cancel them, get them fired.
Real human relationships, whether romantic or otherwise, are built through struggle. You have to have faced adversity and come out the other side with the relationship in tact. That is what creates that feeling of safety and security in a relationship, you know that no matter what happens, you've been through some shit with this person and they will have your back.
Consumer oriented culture has turned us all into soft piss babies that flee from anything even remotely uncomfortable. While that feels better and is easier in the short term, it leaves us adrift and without any real relationships in the long-term, which makes us all infinitely more miserable.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for the input.
The thing I've encountered a lot is the whole: "I like you but I don't know if I see anything long-term with you." There are two ways of interpreting it: 1.) It's a woman's nice way of saying she's not into me, or 2.) It's the attitude that you allude to where people are expecting instant gratification. I'm very much of the mindset of taking things one date at a time at the early stage of things to get myself out of my own head. Genuine relationships take time to build, exist in ambiguity, and aren't necessarily the clean, linear progression a lot of people think they are.
Yeah, it's not all bad. I met some amazing women on them. But I think it's more of I hit a ceiling with my approach to dating, and I have to get to another level, if that makes sense.
sure, to some extent it incentivizes a certain commodity based approach to dating where you have so many “options” much like how capitalism gives you “options” but its a shallow choice as your connections will be superficial with this mentality
I totally agree. I think it helped me get out of my shell to an extent because I'm naturally introverted, but I had to stop myself for a beat when I'd be texting multiple women at once because I was noticing some sociopathic tendencies that I did not want to go down.
the dating apps are the endgame of commodification of self through social media; they’re like the most evil one i think. i had a similar situation last october. it resulted in self harm which ultimately convinced me to take the leap into SSRIs. i’m grateful for her now because she was the catalyst for me finally getting on these drugs which i probably should’ve been taking much earlier.
edit: i’d suggest anyone struggling with this sorta thing to check out SLAA. the online LA and NYC meetings are very well-attended
Maybe you should send her a link to this article ;)
One way of looking at this is how the choice of life in our time - exemplified by Netflix or in your case, the apps - has turned people into Seinfeld’s character from Seinfeld. Unbearable, hollow, incapable of committing. Good on you for at least getting out there - there are others who are so paralyzed by the choice that they cannot function.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, and reading your piece a lot resonated with me.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but have you been rejected before? In the sound way this woman did? Rejected by someone you find yourself really drawn to and allow your brain to spawn endless futures with that person? Because what you went through is what I went through the first time I got rejected after a brief fling that seemed to be coalescing into a relationship.
Not to suggest this is you being inexperienced or that that kind of rejection from that kind of person gets better, or that your point about dating apps isn't true (I was lucky to date and eventually meet my wife just before dating apps really took off), but the part about dealing with the rejection stuck out to me. I also crafted an embarrassingly long conciliatory email, got a similar reply, received similar unvarnished Truths from friends afterwards. It blows!
Thanks for reading and for the questions. Haha yes, I have been rejected a lot of times by women I didn’t really care about. I guess in regards to women I've been interested in or had something of substance with, I’ve been the rejector more than the rejected.
I think this one was sort of unexpected based on how things were going—our second and third dates lasted 8 hours each which has never happened to me—unless I misinterpreted it all. I’m sure she did genuinely like me as a person if she spent that much time with me, I think my reaction to it was maybe she was missing that extra spark that I could explain via text. I figured it was too little too late but worth a shot.
Good writing, Sam. I think a lot of young men have been trained to spend their 20s fucking around and using dating apps. Like you, I once believed that getting lots of shallow experience would help because it would show me a great diversity in women. But I think it does show a lack of seriousness, an inability to strip off the armor that makes serious relationships hard. Like you, I am trying to leave those kinds of immature thoughts behind, and just either be single--actually single--or interested fully in one girl at a time. And I think not using the apps is helpful for that
I appreciate the read! Yeah, that's exactly my thought process. What bugged me about this instance is maybe it was a too-little-too-late situation because I was overwhelmed with how much I liked her, and it caught me off guard. Or maybe there was nothing I could do. I'll never know, but at least I can learn from it.
cool writing
This is a great piece brother.
There is a cynical and non-cynical way to approach impermanent relationships. It sounds like you have embraced the non-cynical approach and gotten hurt in the process, but that’s how it goes. It’s better to feel hurt than to try to force yourself to feel nothing.
The cynical approach (which I associate with Anglo-American capitalist striving) tries to maximize body count in order to “win” at sex. The non-cynical approach (which I would associate with stereotypes of places like France or Italy) recognizes that even temporary relationships must be experienced fully. The cynical approach tries to strip emotional connection from sex and de-emphasize the importance of one’s partner. In a cynical hookup culture sexual partners become interchangeable commodities. The non-cynical approach embraces the emotional messiness of romance. The idea of amour fou, an emotional experience that burns so hot and so fast that it necessarily extinguishes itself, is anathema to modern American dating. Even if one is “looking for something serious”, and thus “taking it slow”, they’re putting up the same emotional barriers to keep themselves from being hurt that someone only looking for hookups would.
Dating is necessarily messy. You’re supposed to get hurt. And you’re supposed to leave ephemeral relationships behind eventually once you find something deep and sustainable. But that’s all up to chance.
Totally agree, and thanks for reading! I think moving around a bunch has gotten me emotionally equipped to handle "non-traditional" relationships, even if they aren't what people would consider "serious." Early on in dating, I just ask myself "do I like this person enough to see them at least once more?" And that simplifies things for me.
Dating is the microcosm, but all of society is suffering from this mode of interaction. If something isn't perfect, you tossed it out and moved on to the next thing. This date isn't quite right, they have this annoying thing or this dumb belief or whatever, left swipe, move along there are hundreds of others waiting. This friend has some regressive or just plain not thought all the way through beliefs? Cancel them, get them fired.
Real human relationships, whether romantic or otherwise, are built through struggle. You have to have faced adversity and come out the other side with the relationship in tact. That is what creates that feeling of safety and security in a relationship, you know that no matter what happens, you've been through some shit with this person and they will have your back.
Consumer oriented culture has turned us all into soft piss babies that flee from anything even remotely uncomfortable. While that feels better and is easier in the short term, it leaves us adrift and without any real relationships in the long-term, which makes us all infinitely more miserable.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for the input.
The thing I've encountered a lot is the whole: "I like you but I don't know if I see anything long-term with you." There are two ways of interpreting it: 1.) It's a woman's nice way of saying she's not into me, or 2.) It's the attitude that you allude to where people are expecting instant gratification. I'm very much of the mindset of taking things one date at a time at the early stage of things to get myself out of my own head. Genuine relationships take time to build, exist in ambiguity, and aren't necessarily the clean, linear progression a lot of people think they are.
i met my current girlfriend on one and honestly i think I just lucked out 🤷♂️
Yeah, it's not all bad. I met some amazing women on them. But I think it's more of I hit a ceiling with my approach to dating, and I have to get to another level, if that makes sense.
sure, to some extent it incentivizes a certain commodity based approach to dating where you have so many “options” much like how capitalism gives you “options” but its a shallow choice as your connections will be superficial with this mentality
I totally agree. I think it helped me get out of my shell to an extent because I'm naturally introverted, but I had to stop myself for a beat when I'd be texting multiple women at once because I was noticing some sociopathic tendencies that I did not want to go down.
the dating apps are the endgame of commodification of self through social media; they’re like the most evil one i think. i had a similar situation last october. it resulted in self harm which ultimately convinced me to take the leap into SSRIs. i’m grateful for her now because she was the catalyst for me finally getting on these drugs which i probably should’ve been taking much earlier.
edit: i’d suggest anyone struggling with this sorta thing to check out SLAA. the online LA and NYC meetings are very well-attended